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Interview With God

We recommend that you visit the following site and view the presentation: www.interviewwithgod.com
 
 
Note: The version online now is NOT the original version, which was really a collection of eastern thought with little connection to anything in the Bible. The current version was revised to address this, as far as we can tell.

Why I Am Not A Mormon
by Michael Cranford

The Mormons arrived at my door for the first time about 18 years ago. After some very basic research (the fellows at the door didn't bring it to my direct attention), I learned that the Mormons reject the most essential doctrines of historic, orthodox Christianity (like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the nature of God, the basis for salvation, and the identity of the church in the world). Mormonism and Christianity couldn't both be true. I was challenged to look into the claims of their church, and to read their publications and pray that God would show me the truth. The following is a synopsis of my findings, including why I haven't been persuaded to become a Mormon. Please note that space precludes providing detailed information, or a careful analysis of what the Mormons actually believe, but I have this material available. My point is not to beat on the Mormons, but to explain why I could never believe what they teach.

Some Basic Mormon Teachings

1. The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635). (They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth. Against this see Matt 16:18.)

2. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).

3. There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

4. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). (Against this see Isa 43:10-11; 44:6-8; 45:5-6, 21-22.)

5. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).

6. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). (Against this see Num 23:19; Hos 11:9; Mal 3:6; Heb 13:8.)

7. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347, 354). (To see who originated this teaching, check Gen 3:5; Isa 14:12-15.)

8. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22). (Against this see Luke 24:36-39; John 4:24; II Cor 3:17.)

9. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit babies (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).

10. We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218). (Against this see Zech 12:1; John 3:13, 31.)

11. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, page 129). (Against this see John 1:1; 8:58; Col 1:15-16; Rev 1:8.)

12. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). (Against this see Col 1:17.)

13. God the Father had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857). (Against this see Matt 1:18-20; Luke 1:35. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.)

14. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856). (Against this see Col 1:20; I Cor 15:3.)

15. Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92). (Against this see Titus 3:5-7; Eph 2:8-9.)

16.There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188). (Against this see Acts 4:12; John 5:24.)

The Book of Mormon

I was challenged to read the book of Mormon and pray to know if it was true. I did this. (I've read it on two occasions, actually.) Here are some things I discovered.

"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 194).

Referring to the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, a Mormon apostle said:

"...the voice of the Lord told them it had been translated correctly, commanding them to send forth their testimonies to all nations" (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. II, p. 293).

But it's not the most correct book on earth. There have been over 4000 spelling and grammatical changes, not to mention many doctrinal ones. The original 1830 edition contained rambling and incomprehensible sentences nearly 400 words long. Joseph Smith and his friends who acted as scribes in "translating" the Book of Mormon were poorly educated. They couldn't spell, and their grammar was bad. Although Joseph claimed to translate by the "gift and power of God," the result was very human, as evidenced by these examples:

"...These our dearly beloved brethren, who have so dearly beloved us" (Alma 26:9; 1830 edition, p. 296).

"...Yea, if my days could have been in them days... But, behold, I am consigned that these are my days" (Helaman 7:8-9; 1830 edition, p. 427).

"...Even until we had arriven to the land of Middoni" (Alma 20:30; 1830 edition, p. 282).

In contrast, Jesus's Sermon on the Mount includes eighteen complete, meaningful sentences in the first 340 words. The most complex sentence in the New Testament does not reach 100 words and is clear and readable. Compare the clarity and beauty of the Bible with these sentences from the early Book of Mormon:

"...There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of ites; but they were one, the children of Christ" (4 Nephi 1:17; 1830 edition p. 515).

"...He went forth among the people, waving the rent of his garment in the air, that all might see the writing which he had wrote upon the rent" (This one was fixed up in recent editions as Alma 46:12-19; 1830 edition p. 351).

Not only were grammatical errors corrected (in the most correct book on earth), but many doctrinal changes have been made:

 1830 Edition of the Book of Mormon1981 Edition of the Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:18 "And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of [. . . . ] God, after the manner of the flesh."  "And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh."
1 Nephi 11:21 "And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the [. . . . ] Eternal Father!...""And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!..."
1 Nephi 20:1, changed in 1964 ed."Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, [. . . . ] which swear...""Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear..."
3 Nephi 10:4"O ye people of these great cities which have fallen which are a descendant of Jacob; yea which are of the house of Israel; O ye people of the house of Israel, how oft have I gathered you...""O ye people of these great cities which have fallen, who are descendants of Jacob, yea, who are of the house of Israel, [. . . . ] how oft have I gathered you..."
 

A Mormon apostle also challenges us to examine the Book of Mormon on the basis of its reasonableness:

"If we compare the historical, prophetical, and doctrinal parts of the Book of Mormon with the great truths of science and nature, we find no contradictions — no absurdities — nothing unreasonable" (Orson Pratt, Talmage's Articles of Faith, p. 505).

I accepted this challenge, and found that the Book of Mormon contains numerous stories which seem like something an ignorant or poorly educated person would invent. For example, Lehi was a Jew who allegedly lived in Jerusalem all his life, but whose language was somehow Egyptian (I Nephi 1:2, 4). He gave more specific prophecies concerning Christ than all the Old Testament prophets combined...which is very suspicious. In 600 B.C. he and his family allegedly came to America, less than 20 people. But the Book of Mormon reports that they divided into two nations in less than 30 years, even though only a few dozen people could have been born in that time, at best. II Nephi 5:16 says that one of those nations built a temple like Solomon's less than 19 years after their arrival in America (I Nephi 18:23, II Nephi 5:28). By contrast, Solomon's temple took 7½ years to build (I Kings 6:1,38) with 30,000 levied Israelites and 150,000 hewers of stone and carriers (I Kings 5:13-15). A total of 550 chiefs and 3300 subordinates supervised the work (I Kings 5:16 and 9:23). A difficult job for a few dozen people.

During the same 19 years or less Laman and Lemuel (two of Lehi's sons) along with their descendants and followers turned dark-skinned because of disobedience (II Nephi 5:21). This phenomenal change of skin color is seen throughout the Book of Mormon. In III Nephi 2:11-16 we see that the dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) turned white within one year as a result of accepting the true gospel. But in the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon, II Nephi 30:6 has been changed so that converted Lamanites become "pure" instead of "white." Perhaps after 150 years the LDS leaders have noticed that Indians don't become white when they become Mormons! Yet they should turn white (and apostates turn dark) if Mormon 9:9-10,19 is true.

The Book of Mormon also mentions that the River Laman emptied into the Red Sea (I Nephi 2:5-8). Investigation shows there are no rivers in all of Arabia now or in recorded history, and no river empties into the Red Sea! Nor did any Hebrew name his child "Sam" (v. 5). That's not a Hebrew name (it's English). It also states that Joseph's enemies were to be confounded when they sought to destroy him (II Nephi 3:14), but Smith was shot and killed in Carthage, Illinois while in jail on June 27, 1844. Mosiah 2:3 says that they followed the law of Moses in taking the firstlings of flocks and offering them for burnt offerings. But firstlings were never used for burnt offerings in the Mosiac law (Deut. 15:19-20). In 2 Nephi 10:7 it says, "When the day cometh that they [Jews] shall believe in me, that I am Christ, then have I covenanted with their fathers that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon this earth, unto the lands of their inheritance." The Jews are back in their land, but do not believe that Jesus is the Christ. This is a false prophecy. I located a long list of these sorts of things.

The Book of Mormon mentions iron mining, which leaves permanent geological scars on the land; no such traces have ever been found in the Americas before the time of Columbus. Nor did any of the following exist in America before this time, contrary to what the Book of Mormon claims: steel, scimitars, breastplates, gold and silver coins, shipbuilding, wheeled vehicles, wheat, barley, flax, vineyards, domesticated animals (dogs, cows, goats, oxen, swine, etc.). Anthropologists unanimously agree that all these came to America after the time of Columbus, and no archaeological traces remain to substantiate a pre-Columbian civilization as we find in the Book of Mormon.

BYU Professor of Anthropology Ray T. Matheny says the constant reference in the Book of Mormon to iron is "a king-size problem":

    The Book of Mormon talks about ferrous and non-ferrous metallurgical industries. A ferrous industry is a whole system of doing something. It's just not an esoteric process that a few people are involved in, but ferrous industry...means mining iron ores and then processing these ores and casting [them] into irons...This is a process that's very complicated...it calls for cultural backup to allow such an activity to take place...In my recent reading of the Book of Mormon, I find that iron and steel are mentioned in sufficient context to suggest that there was a ferrous industry here...

But Matheny says archaeology proves that there was no iron mining in the western Hemisphere in pre-Columbian times. And there is no room for making a mistake about it:

    You can't refine ore without leaving a bloom of some kind or...impurities that blossom out and float to the top of the ore...and also the flux of limestone or whatever is used to flux the material...[This] blooms off into silicas and indestructible new rock forms. In other words, when you have a ferroused metallurgical industry, you have these evidences of the detritus that is left over. You also have the fuels, you have the furnaces, you have whatever technologies that were there performing these tasks; they leave solid evidences. And they are indestructible things...No evidence has been found in the new world for a ferrous metallurgical industry dating to pre-Columbian times. And so this is a king-size kind of problem, it seems to me, for the so-called Book of Mormon archaeology. This evidence is absent. (Ray T. Matheny, Speech at Sunstone Symposium 6, "Book of Mormon Archaeology," Aug. 25, 1984.)

The Smithsonian Institution, which Mormons at one point claimed could support the existence of a pre-Columbian civilization in the Americas, issued an official document denying this, from which I offer a quote:

    Information from the National Museum of Natural History Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C. 20560. Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon.

     The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archaeologists see no direct connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.

    ...One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific finding that contacts with Old World civilizations, if indeed they occurred at all, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre-Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley, oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, but all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time the early big game (sic) hunters spread across the Americas.)

     ... Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron). Native copper was worked used (sic) in various locations in pre-Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron...

     ...Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.

Mormon Prophets

One of the most critical sources of authority for Mormons are the teachings of their prophets. As I examined their teachings, I used the test given in Deut. 18 to determine if a prophet is genuine:

"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him" (Deut. 18:21-22).

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, is particularly important. If he is not credible, then Mormonism essentially crumbles. The Mormons seem to agree:

"If Joseph Smith was a deceiver...then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an imposter...will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.188).

Although the test in Deut. 18 is not the only "test" a prophet needs to pass, it is the only one we need to apply to Joseph Smith. If there is just one single thing that Joseph Smith ever said in his capacity of God's mouthpiece that failed to come to pass, we know him to be a false prophet, and every word of a false prophet is to be rejected. Some Mormons would say that not every word of his or Brigham Young's is prophecy (i.e., sometimes they were prophets, and other times just men who might lie or make things up), but note the following:

"Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his [Joseph Smith's] words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from my own mouth, in all patience and faith" (Doctrine and Covenants 21:4-5).

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture... Let this go to the people with ‘Thus saith the Lord,' and if they do not obey it, you will see the chastening hand of the Lord upon them" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

I was able to locate a great many teachings and prophecies of Smith's which were not true. I quote one here, because it clearly shows Joseph Smith acting as a prophet: "I prophesy by virtue of the holy priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government, and God shall damn them, and there shall be nothing left of them—not even a grease spot" (Joseph Smith, Millennial Star, vol. 22, p. 455).

In fact, the U.S. government never granted Joseph Smith or the Mormons their petition, and yet today there is still a government here. In addition to false prophecies, I compared many teachings from various Mormon prophets, and they often contradict one another or the Book of Mormon (not to mention the Bible). Here are some examples:

 Adam - Earth Dust

Brigham Young

Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not the dust of this earth (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 319).

 Joseph Fielding Smith

Adam's body was created from the dust of the ground, that is, from the dust of this ground, this earth (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 90).

 Adam - God

Spencer W. Kimball

We denounce [the Adam-God theory] and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine (Deseret News, Oct. 9, 1976).

 Brigham Young

How much unbelief exists...in regard to one particular doctrine...which God revealed to me — namely that Adam is our father and God (Deseret News, June 18, 1873).

 God Increasing in Knowledge

Wilford Woodruff

God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so worlds without end (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120).

 Joseph Fielding Smith

The doctrine "God increases in knowledge as time goes on"...is very dangerous. I don't know where the Lord has ever declared such a thing (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 90).

 Virgin Birth

Brigham Young

Now, remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 51).

 Book of Mormon

And behold, he shall be born of Mary...she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God (Alma 7:10).

 Bible

Now the birth of Jesus was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost (Matt 1:18).

People On The Sun

Brigham Young

So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 271).

(This is not a contradiction, but it's so wild that I had to include it.)

The Fruits of the Mormon Church

The Mormons I've talked to have also appealed to the fruits of the Mormon church as proof that it is the true church, and the typical example is Mormon attitudes toward family values. When I looked into this, I found that under the surface there may be problems. Social statistics on Utah (which is over 70% Mormon) indicate that Mormonism does not bear fruit in connection with the family.

Child Abuse

"Unless Utah quickly moves to interrupt the spiraling cycle of child abuse and neglect, where substantiated cases have climbed 44 percent since 1987, the number of perpetrators and victimized children will continue to grow," a legislative fiscal analyst has cautioned. According to analyst J. Winslow, "State expenditures to treat child-abuse victims will serve less than 200 children in fiscal 1990."

Concerning the statistics, each of which represents a vulnerable child, "Numerically, neglect is highest, with cases up to 3,716 in 1989, as compared to 2,515 in 1987. The largest percentage increase was in physical abuse which grew from 1,287 to 2,096 cases or 63 percent. And the number of sexual abuse victims grew 53 percent, from 1,162 to 1,770 victims." (Salt Lake Tribune, Jan. 24, 1990 p. 1-B).

Divorce

"With a higher-than-average divorce rate in Utah, compared to the rest of the country, as well as a larger population of children under 18, Rosalind McGee (executive director of Utah Children, a group advocating children's rights) said children in Utah are at greater risk of suffering the impact of divorce. "Utah's divorce rate is 5.4 per 1,000 persons, compared to 4.8 nationally. Salt Lake County's divorce rate is almost 50 percent higher than the national average, at 6.4 divorces per 1,000" (Salt Lake Tribune, Jan. 11, 1990 p. 1-E).

Crime And Alcohol

"During the decade between 1969 and 1978, Utah's crime rate increased 129 percent — even faster than the 106 percent national increase. Utah is still a relatively safe place to live, but violent crime did increase 95 percent during those years, compared to a 50 percent increase nationally. And crimes against property grew 131 percent, placing Utah in the top fifth of the nation" (American Demographics, May 1982, p. 22).

Despite the fact that Utah ranks 48th nationally in alcohol consumption, "Utahns consumed 33 percent more alcohol in 1977 than in 1970, compared to a national consumption growth of only 22 percent" (Ibid).

Drugs

Richard Hemrick, director of the Recovery Center at Humana Hospital, a substance-abuse program, explained, "Utahns may enjoy the distinction of drinking on average one gallon less alcohol each a year than Americans in general, but they lead the nation in the use of prescription drugs..." (Salt Lake Tribune, April 1, 1989 p. E3).

"In contrast to nationwide ‘Just say no' campaigns which appear to be helping reduce drug abuse among non-Mormons, Rick D. Hawks says such advertising and public relations are not working with Mormon teens" (Salt Lake Tribune, Aug. 25, 1989 p. 6B).

Suicide

Of all the sub-categories listed here, this is the saddest. "Suicides among Utah children 10 to 14 increased 112 percent between 1980 and 1987, but because overall numbers of self-inflicted deaths are so small, experts are reluctant to say there is a trend" (Ogden Standard-Examiner, March 3, 1989 p. 4C).

Personal Testimony

The final source of authority for Mormonism is the burning in the bosom experience that many Mormons claim as a confirmation for their beliefs. I personally did not have this sensation while reading and praying over the Book of Mormon. I have had this sensation many times in serving Jesus Christ, and in reading and studying the Bible. But I wish to stress that my personal feelings do not determine truth for me. I have had many deep feelings about things in my life that later turned out to be wrong. The source of authority for me is not a subjective emotion, but objective truth.

The Bible never tells us to rely on our personal impressions as a source of truth. 1 John 4:1 reminds us not to believe every spirit but rather "test whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world." Jesus bases His divinity on objective (not subjective, emotional) concepts. He fulfills numerous long-standing prophecies. He performed numerous miracles in the presence of thousands of people. When people ask Him for a sign to confirm His authority, Jesus doesn't tell them to pray and ask God for a burning in the bosom. He refers them to His resurrection (John 2:18-19). After His resurrection from a sealed tomb guarded by Roman soldiers, He appeared throughout the countryside and was seen by hundreds of people (500 at one instance). This is the evidence Jesus appeals to in support of His authority—objective truth, not subjective emotions. As we look at the ministry of Paul and the other apostles, we note that they never tell us to believe in connection with a feeling, but because Jesus actually was raised from the dead. They appeal to the evidence (see 1 Cor. 15:1-22). And of course, our feelings can lead us wrong: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9).

The reality is that God has revealed truth in the Bible. The Bible is not compatible with Mormonism. (I haven't gone into that, but hopefully you can discern that already from the teachings I listed earlier.) Praying for a feeling about Mormonism is tantamount to saying to God, "I'm not going to trust what you already have spoken; give me a strong feeling instead." God doesn't respond to these challenges! Why pray to know if the Koran is true? Or the Satanic Bible? Both of these are incompatible with the Bible also.

Anyway, that's why I'm not a Mormon, in a nutshell. Their sources of authority are not valid. Since they are not valid, their teaching (which contradicts what we find in scripture) is not convincing to me.

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